Cotter Canopy Casuarina Sands, Australian Capital Territory, Australia
By
Tankengine on 30-Nov-08. Waypoint GC1JHRM
Cache Details
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Logs
Cache and log replaced! - But whoops - I left the old cache there!Could the next person please remove that. The new one is hanging in the tree.GOOD TO GO!!!
Found 19:10 27/1/2023 with Simber15 while enjoying a nice drive on the Bullen RangeThank you Tankengine for the cache and bringing me to this location.
A short ride on the e-TOTT from Murray's Corner around the northern section of the Bullen Range Adventure Playground in the fog, before the rain today. Great to be here on a weekday and to have the trails to myself rather than having to share with 4WDs and trailbikes!
This cache was quickly located at GZ and is in good condition.
Thanks, Tankengine!
This cache was quickly located at GZ and is in good condition.
Thanks, Tankengine!
Nice views of the over flowing dam wall today .
Cache found nicely tucked away . Only the second finder this year .
Thanks to Tankengine.
Cache found nicely tucked away . Only the second finder this year .
Thanks to Tankengine.
Nearly forgot to log a few of these! Took an evening walk up on the Bullen range a couple of weeks back.
I was running later than I'd planned, so in the end I got only as far as "Bullen Bumps" before I had to double back and head for my car - but it was a good stretch of the legs and delightfully peaceful so late in the day. I had no trouble finding any of the caches.
Thanks you!
I was running later than I'd planned, so in the end I got only as far as "Bullen Bumps" before I had to double back and head for my car - but it was a good stretch of the legs and delightfully peaceful so late in the day. I had no trouble finding any of the caches.
Thanks you!
In all my years in Canberra, never been here. Cool spot, especially on east side of ridge from the cache with views of rolling country. Would be hot in summer!
After discovering this track earlier in the week, I was back out today with my youngest daughter who absolutely loves 4WDing and to do some caching. We got to watch some other drivers struggling to get up the hills while the RAM easily ambled up them. Grabbed the TB, thanks TE.
Found today with DTY73 of a 4WD caching journey. I have never driven 4WD before and it was scary as going up the first hill. But kept my cool and just kept driving and made it to the top. But then there was more road and hectic hills and down hill. OMG I was a nervous wreck but the car handled beautifully and made it to this one. Again excellent views and and cache in good condition. TFTC
I was out with Joolay - the 4WD novice, but handled it like a pro!
We were a few caches into our day when we got to this one. being so high and see the amzing views was a wonderful thing.
We were able to park easily at this cache and the container was found quikcly at GZ. The container was big enough to fit a TB in so I thought that this one would be good here. Safe travels big guy.
Great spot for a cache and great scenery to be seen. Tftc Tankengine!!!
We were a few caches into our day when we got to this one. being so high and see the amzing views was a wonderful thing.
We were able to park easily at this cache and the container was found quikcly at GZ. The container was big enough to fit a TB in so I thought that this one would be good here. Safe travels big guy.
Great spot for a cache and great scenery to be seen. Tftc Tankengine!!!
Found with GrimRaider on a drive out to the Cotter. Cache in good condition. Great views. TFTC
Was out in the area exploring with Jusojura and Delta Response Team and we made the drive up to this cache. Was a great day to be out and a few other families and people were enjoying the warm(ish) sunny day at the creek as we crossed. What a nice change to drive through the creek and not have to walk it, and of course to then drive UP the road and not puff and pant and stop all the time so I can make the distance... and there were some seriously big hills along the way as well.
This was our third for the day and both Jusojura and Delta Response team had previously found it but happy to stop so I could, had it located quite quickly and then we continued along stopping at the rest of the trail along the way. Was a nice side trip on our way up to Mt Coree, some nice views along the way and passed a number of other cars and motorbikes up along the road as well. Thanks for the cache Tankengine.
This was our third for the day and both Jusojura and Delta Response team had previously found it but happy to stop so I could, had it located quite quickly and then we continued along stopping at the rest of the trail along the way. Was a nice side trip on our way up to Mt Coree, some nice views along the way and passed a number of other cars and motorbikes up along the road as well. Thanks for the cache Tankengine.
Wow, what a climb! Walked up here from the campground so legs were feeling it by then. Cache found quickly and all OK. Had lunch while I was there.
For some reason, I decided to punish myself some more and head towards II!
Thanks,
For some reason, I decided to punish myself some more and head towards II!
Thanks,
A planned day out with fitzy_1965 and Albida33 to collect some hard to reach caches. Headed out rather early and thankfully we did as there was a cycle race on down to Uriarra today. Met Binliner heading in the opposite direction. Once at the end of ALL7's series it was clear sailing. 22000 steps later we were utterly exhausted but certainly had a fun day. Most logs signed as AMF.
#9131 @1445
An afternoon caching around the Cotter again. After the fun of driving up on the Bullen Range last weekend, I returned today to find the rest of the caches up here. A nice quick find here. Great views along the way. TFTC.
An afternoon caching around the Cotter again. After the fun of driving up on the Bullen Range last weekend, I returned today to find the rest of the caches up here. A nice quick find here. Great views along the way. TFTC.
Easy find despite lotsa decoy burnt stumps. But a challenging climb. Worth it for the great views of Cotter Dam. TFTC
Saturday 1 July 2017 - after a minus 6 celcius early this morning we had a glorious afternoon with a cloudless deep blue sky in the very low teens with ice still on the ground 'where the sun don't shine'. Did some bike riding then walked for two hours over 5.4km with a total accent of approx 300m to find 5 from 5 caches.
To find this cache it was a steep walk up from the river. Not quite sure why people want to use their 4WDs and not their 2LDs as it's great to feel your heart pumping when you reach the top and the views are wow. Worth a favourite point. Thx p2p. TFTC Tankengine.
To find this cache it was a steep walk up from the river. Not quite sure why people want to use their 4WDs and not their 2LDs as it's great to feel your heart pumping when you reach the top and the views are wow. Worth a favourite point. Thx p2p. TFTC Tankengine.
The Wednesday bushwalk today started at Cotter campground and ascended along the Bullen Fire Trail, giving me the opportunity to seek out four geocaches along the way. All were straightforward finds, each being on the coordinates and close to the track. This was the second find of the day. Thank you Tankengine for installing and maintaining this cache, and all the caches I found today.
Our for a day of caching and 4WDing with Jusojara, after doing some mainanance to the nearby power trail we decided to go for a drive to get some caches i hadn't previously got.
After passing it the first time, came back past as we couldn't get back the way we planned. Made the find
TFTC
After passing it the first time, came back past as we couldn't get back the way we planned. Made the find
TFTC
Today we did loop through the Bullen Range Nature Pak and enjoyed the challenge of 4x4ing and scenery along the way. Great views and an easy find. Took Geo coin & TB.
Thanks for placing and maintaining this cache for our enjoyment.
Thanks for placing and maintaining this cache for our enjoyment.
With some glorious Spring weather I decided it was about time I collected the smiley on this one! Was in the area just yesterday, but with all the recent rain there was no easy way to cross the river from the approach I was on. So today I parked at the Cotter camp ground, crossed the broken bridge by shuffling over the I-beams, and was soon on my way. A very lovely walk along a footpad I haven't tried before. Obviously I knew I was heading upwards with the whole "canopy" thing, wasn't to bad and the views of the new Spillway flowing was worth it!
Cache was found in great condition and decided to drop the two TBs off that we have been hanging onto way to long!
Thanks for bringing me up here today Tankengine , I reckon there is room for at least another cache up here
TFTC
Cache was found in great condition and decided to drop the two TBs off that we have been hanging onto way to long!
Thanks for bringing me up here today Tankengine , I reckon there is room for at least another cache up here
TFTC
Tftc! Wish I had more daylight though or I would have gone further south than cotter canopy 2 next time and when I'm fitter
Drove from Cotters Cave. Regardless a bit of thrill driving the car in these conditions, not your average road. Found with The Matetrix. TNLNSL TFTC
2400 ft (731m) above sea level
2400 ft (731m) above sea level
We cheated and drove up here in the new little 4WD 'The Little Red Beast'. I didn't know how it and me were going to go getting up there but the little red beast ate that hill. In fact we continued on and came back down at Cotter Caves.
Thanks for the views and the adventure. The Little Red Beast came of age today
Thanks for the views and the adventure. The Little Red Beast came of age today
I tried driving to this one but chickened out on the last hill. Nice walking climb instead. Great views from the top and also when walking down. TFTC Tankengine.
A walk around Cotter Dam and the North Bullen Range to-day.. About 16 kilometres of walking, about a dozen caches found and 2 DNF. Got a bit damp crossing Paddys River, but worth it for the views. TFTC.
Taking advantage of the public holiday, we teamed up with hccatcher11415 and allrounder to complete the Mineshaft series as well as some others while in the area. Wow what a view!!! Thanks hccatcher11415 for providing the transport and taking the high roads, great fun! Thanks for a great day! TFTC
Found with allrounder and FurFacesLL, the 40th of 44 caches, a new daily record for me!
Left a pathtag, thanks Tankengine
Left a pathtag, thanks Tankengine
Found @ 3:21pm, with hccatcher11415 and FurFacesLL, the 39th of 44 caches, a new daily record for me!
Another cool spot, I left a pathtag and alien keyring. Two other vehicles went past as we pulled over for this one. Thanks again Tankengine
Another cool spot, I left a pathtag and alien keyring. Two other vehicles went past as we pulled over for this one. Thanks again Tankengine
1973. Another drive by while in this neck of the woods. A quick find and some great views. No dramas for the Hilux. Thanks TE for the cache.
A beautiful day today after a cold night camping. I had not been in the cotter for years and it it
A interesting to see the regrowrh after 9 years.
A interesting to see the regrowrh after 9 years.
Joint effort with Mightybent. Nice spot .on a great day The Cruza loved the track. TFTC
Found with dentoz after visiting the Cotter Dam at its open day. Great trail. Tftc.
Ja of jusojara and Mr Roo joined me to locate this cache, while Ju stayed in the car. Thanks for the lift Ja.
Lovely views up here, TFTC Tankengine.
Lovely views up here, TFTC Tankengine.
Couldn't drive so hiked up to the top of this one with nice views on the way which made up for the exertion. TFTC
My 99th Tankengine find! Made the drive along the ridge from Spacey Cache II in JmanJezza's new Jeep. See here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpoibUTEfKk
Geoboy who shall now be known as Caching King Hugh made the find after only a small pointer. Dropped in a new Norkmeister path tag.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpoibUTEfKk
Geoboy who shall now be known as Caching King Hugh made the find after only a small pointer. Dropped in a new Norkmeister path tag.
Picked this up on a 4wd trip aroung the cotter. Great vies back down towards the new cotter dam. Actually great views all round up here.
Brilliant views of the cotter and the dam building. Drove up in Albida's car did it the easy way TFTC
up hill indeed. approached from the Copper comeback cache which we had thought of a direct attack but came to our senses and just followed the fire trail along the ridge, plenty of up-hill sure.. but probably alot easier .. oh did I not say uphill yes.. unfortunately not much of a view from GZ for all the walking but a great day to be out walking..
Took Kingsport Coin
Took Kingsport Coin
Grab this one on our night 4WDriving in the Brindies. Took a few photos of the construction before heading out to Mt Coree for some stargazing!
Quite cold outside unless you can lie down on a 4WD hood, then its just toasty! TFTC!
L: Geocoin
Quite cold outside unless you can lie down on a 4WD hood, then its just toasty! TFTC!
L: Geocoin
Found with Newberys this morning. Came all the way up here with our mountain bikes with only a little bit of effort - thanks to Newbery's 4WD . This ridge is definitely worth exploring further so many thanks for bringing us up here TankEngine!
Nice trip on the geotruck with Rbirtles. Glad the gate was open, we were going to ride the mountain bikes up here, but it would have been a bit of a bone cruncher coming down. Good views of the dam works from up here too. TNLN, TFTC.
After reading of people walking and riding to this cache I did feel a little guilty driving up there. However this guilty feeling lasted about 10 seconds.... TFTC
After not being able to get to this cache yesterday with time and foot limitations, I knew that i had to come back. This time with a little more power. Great morning to be out riding the bikes, enjoyed the trails, although a couple were a little nasty on the down hill sections, but I made it. Plus, the water at the start of this trail was great fun, and a good way to clean off. Headed home just as the storm moved in. TFTC
Tried to do a drive by for this one due to looming clouds however I didn't think my car would make it across the creek. So I left the car at the bottom and decided do a quick run up the hill and just retrieve it and get out. Maybe I over estimated my fitness, maybe that hill is steeper then it looks, maybe next time I'll capture and ride a mountain goat to the top, but by the time I got there I was completely and utterly stuffed and it was nowhere near a quick run. On a number of my many rest breaks I had a chance to admire the great views. The cache was easy to find when I finally got there (I was briefly fooled as to it's location as the hint could refer to one other place in the very near vicinity) and my new GPS was only out by <5 m (which is what it was claiming anyway). I do believe however that perhaps the cache would be better off down the hill a little further as there isn't much of a view from the area surrounding the cache.
Almost ended up with a broken ankle...almost.
T: 2 x key rings, snake
L: key ring, swiss coin, die cast truck. TFTC
T: 2 x key rings, snake
L: key ring, swiss coin, die cast truck. TFTC
I had oggled this from Copper comeback on the weekend but decided against it then.
Drove along the forestry trails to Paddy's river. Contemplated taking the car up but wasn't sure of how good the road was and my tyres are certainly highway orientated. I think I made the correct call by walking. Whoosh, that was steep in parts. Still the effort was worth it. On the return trip, popped in to have a closer look at the Cotter caves.
Dropped Koala TB, hope it enjoys the views
Drove along the forestry trails to Paddy's river. Contemplated taking the car up but wasn't sure of how good the road was and my tyres are certainly highway orientated. I think I made the correct call by walking. Whoosh, that was steep in parts. Still the effort was worth it. On the return trip, popped in to have a closer look at the Cotter caves.
Dropped Koala TB, hope it enjoys the views
1160 - Well I think today was close to if not the most AMAZING day of caching I've had since I've started in this game...
The team of Big Matt and Shell (minus Shell), FarmerFrentzen, Sol de Lune and fitzy_1965 attempted to do various caches up on the Mt. Franklin Road and Cotter region today.
Well the use of a 4WD turned this into a Drive By (Much to SDL's dislike - see his log...) but the drive in itself made it very exciting...
The storm was just about to hit here so it was a quick sign and grab...
Took TBs - TFTC !!
Cheers....
The team of Big Matt and Shell (minus Shell), FarmerFrentzen, Sol de Lune and fitzy_1965 attempted to do various caches up on the Mt. Franklin Road and Cotter region today.
Well the use of a 4WD turned this into a Drive By (Much to SDL's dislike - see his log...) but the drive in itself made it very exciting...
The storm was just about to hit here so it was a quick sign and grab...
Took TBs - TFTC !!
Cheers....
We went out 4WD'ing with the entire team (Geohounds included) and a mate fromwork on his trailbike and happend to pass by this way. The last time we were up this way was about a week before this one was published.
Stopped near GZ and Ju made the short trek to the cache and the easy find.
T GC
L TB
Visited Landsharkz Gecko
SL TFTC
Stopped near GZ and Ju made the short trek to the cache and the easy find.
T GC
L TB
Visited Landsharkz Gecko
SL TFTC
#100 - Found just on dusk with family. TNLN TFTC.
[This entry was edited by Dave2 on Sunday, January 18, 2009 at 2:34:21 AM.]
[This entry was edited by Dave2 on Sunday, January 18, 2009 at 2:34:21 AM.]
Was our last search for the day. Drove as far as we could, though my friends little car could not cope with the embankment. Walked part way, but we gave up after a while, far too tired and full from a late lunch at the Tracking Station. Will have to try again another time.
Bit overcast but hot! Went from Banks to Gungahlin on this one. Or thats what it felt like...THEN we decided to walk anyway.
Parked up the nearby campground and hooffed it up to GZ within bout half an hour. Views (and pace) were the highpoints of the way back to the car. Wonder what the views will be like in 10 years? Thanks for the cache.
Parked up the nearby campground and hooffed it up to GZ within bout half an hour. Views (and pace) were the highpoints of the way back to the car. Wonder what the views will be like in 10 years? Thanks for the cache.
After two caches nearby this morning, this was the final cache with Zsa Zsa7 and McPhan before returning home. After wandering around on some trails hoping to get close by vehicle, we decided to enjoy some exercise and took the walking route from the campround. It's a nice walk although very steep in places and by late morning it was getting very warm. We were glad to grab the cache and stumble back to the car, to turn up the air conditioning. A walk like that is always improved by good company, thanks to McPhan and Zsa Zsa. And thanks Tankengine for another interesting location. Left a coin.
1645. After travelling around some fire trails trying to make this a drive by in the new Adventra I was stopped by a puddle. Not being confident in crossing said puddle I decided we would drive around more to see if there was a better way. For the record we never got any closer than the puddle, a fact that I was reminded of several times as we ended up at the campground for a foot assault.
According to Merriam-Webster invigorate means to give life and energy to but by the time I reached the top I had anything but. Why oh why didn't I take on the puddle. "For training purposes", came the reasoning of Mrs W. This was the last cache for the morning and it really was a tough walk (for me) in the increasing heat of the day.
TFTC and said training value.
According to Merriam-Webster invigorate means to give life and energy to but by the time I reached the top I had anything but. Why oh why didn't I take on the puddle. "For training purposes", came the reasoning of Mrs W. This was the last cache for the morning and it really was a tough walk (for me) in the increasing heat of the day.
TFTC and said training value.
Rated: for Overall Experience
Took the easy way - the Land Rover express - to the top and found it quickly. Great views to the west! Picked up a coin and bug, SL. TFTC.
Hi had to come back to try out the track in the car. Saw the Geotalk coin but not the USA GC. Oh well. Albida
Found with SecretSquirrel-BJC.
A very pleasant late afternoon stroll straight up from the campground to the ridge. The views were fantastic as usual, and it was great to see the cotter dam so full again.
Left:
TB - Charlie
TB - Travel Bug Bullet
Coin - Geotalk Geocoin
A very pleasant late afternoon stroll straight up from the campground to the ridge. The views were fantastic as usual, and it was great to see the cotter dam so full again.
Left:
TB - Charlie
TB - Travel Bug Bullet
Coin - Geotalk Geocoin
Its been a couple of weeks since I’ve been able to do any cache finding. So I took an early Sunday morning walk to find this cache. I parked at the camping ground and made my way along the river to check out the near buy construction site ( A tunnel and uninteresting… ), having passed the first bridge I made my way up to the end of the reserve to cross at the other bridge. This meant that I passed by the cotter cave. I have been past here a few times recently. Just past the cave is a another small bridge and that’s when the climb started. Strenuous exercise and Sunday mornings are a rare combination for me so I suffered a bit for the next half hour as I struggled on. The struggle was worth it. The views got better as I made my way up. At the top the views are partially blocked out due to the bush.
This was my first find with my iphone and the GC.com caching software. It nicely integrates the cache page information but does leave a little to desire in pin point accuracy at the gz. It took me about 10 minutes to find the hiding spot. Even with the clue. One point of interest. While searching I found the survey point for the top of the hill hidden in the bushes near buy. So the searching was not wasted.
Took a few photos on my way down of the cotter dam and pumping station. Should be interesting to see how the view changes over the next couple of years with the enlargement.
Took the bottle opener bug, Have a Cold One for Me! Did a visit with a few coins and left a few toy farm animals and a Shadow path tag
Thanks TS for the enjoyable morning walk and great views. A spot well worth the visit.
This was my first find with my iphone and the GC.com caching software. It nicely integrates the cache page information but does leave a little to desire in pin point accuracy at the gz. It took me about 10 minutes to find the hiding spot. Even with the clue. One point of interest. While searching I found the survey point for the top of the hill hidden in the bushes near buy. So the searching was not wasted.
Took a few photos on my way down of the cotter dam and pumping station. Should be interesting to see how the view changes over the next couple of years with the enlargement.
Took the bottle opener bug, Have a Cold One for Me! Did a visit with a few coins and left a few toy farm animals and a Shadow path tag
Thanks TS for the enjoyable morning walk and great views. A spot well worth the visit.
What a marvelous climb. I did not realise it could have been driven, but I had the wrong car anyway. Lots to see. I was so surprised at how much altitude was gained so quickly. Thanks.
1824.4 TNLN
Visited: World Traveling Gold GC A#6 & Night caching A#116
Albida
1824.4 TNLN
Visited: World Traveling Gold GC A#6 & Night caching A#116
Albida
1139+12=1151 with Captain Tomato
After almost an entire day today spent doing the ironing, it didn't take much for Captain Tomato to twist my arm and do a late afternoon/early evening cache loop.
Thoroughly enjoyed the short easy walk straight up through the bush from the campground across the bridge up to the road on the ridge, and the pleasant walk and views to the very top and the cache. Excellent views coming back down. Thanks Tankengine for the excuse to get out and get some fresh air and exercise.
After almost an entire day today spent doing the ironing, it didn't take much for Captain Tomato to twist my arm and do a late afternoon/early evening cache loop.
Thoroughly enjoyed the short easy walk straight up through the bush from the campground across the bridge up to the road on the ridge, and the pleasant walk and views to the very top and the cache. Excellent views coming back down. Thanks Tankengine for the excuse to get out and get some fresh air and exercise.
Rated: for Overall Experience
1752.
I decided to have a go at this one today after work and to break with tradition I took my transport straight to the GZ (well within 10m of it). Today was my first day out on the motorbike for quite a while, and I loved this track, the way up is classic 3rd and 4th gear hill about 65-80 standing up and flying over the spoon drains. Once at the top the cache was quickly found and it was time to head home, I'm sure I'll be back!
Thanks Tankengine for the cache.
TNLNSL
I decided to have a go at this one today after work and to break with tradition I took my transport straight to the GZ (well within 10m of it). Today was my first day out on the motorbike for quite a while, and I loved this track, the way up is classic 3rd and 4th gear hill about 65-80 standing up and flying over the spoon drains. Once at the top the cache was quickly found and it was time to head home, I'm sure I'll be back!
Thanks Tankengine for the cache.
TNLNSL
Walked in for this one, stopped often to admire the views. That is steep! Then an easy find and I just stood up there admiring the views for quite a while. I have been up here before, once.
Grabbed the snail Geocoin, then went back down to do a maintenance check on my Copper Comeback cache. Was walking along when a 2m brown got too close too quick, but not quick enough for me - whack - I always carry a walking stick of sturdy proportions and wear gaiters! After I made sure snake was not going anywhere, I stepped over it and ....relaxed......!
Thanks Tankengine for a MAGNIFICENT location.
Grabbed the snail Geocoin, then went back down to do a maintenance check on my Copper Comeback cache. Was walking along when a 2m brown got too close too quick, but not quick enough for me - whack - I always carry a walking stick of sturdy proportions and wear gaiters! After I made sure snake was not going anywhere, I stepped over it and ....relaxed......!
Thanks Tankengine for a MAGNIFICENT location.
Woo Hoo *FTF*
Finally getting there and finding an empty log book was a great sight.
After completing Copper Comeback (GCWAPH), I ended up parking the car at the other end of the Bullen Range Nature Reserve and then walking about 2.5k's along the ridge line road to GZ.
The views were fantastic and well worth the effort. The listed walk from the Cotter Campground is more than likely closer, but I thought this route might be little easier. As I'm not going back to try the other way, I guess I'll never know.
Once at GZ the cache was found quickly, which is always appreciated after the walk in.
This is great area and I'd say with plenty of room for more caches.
Took 2 coins, left 2 coins and a Pathtag and thanks Tankengine for yet another cache.
Cheers,
Finally getting there and finding an empty log book was a great sight.
After completing Copper Comeback (GCWAPH), I ended up parking the car at the other end of the Bullen Range Nature Reserve and then walking about 2.5k's along the ridge line road to GZ.
The views were fantastic and well worth the effort. The listed walk from the Cotter Campground is more than likely closer, but I thought this route might be little easier. As I'm not going back to try the other way, I guess I'll never know.
Once at GZ the cache was found quickly, which is always appreciated after the walk in.
This is great area and I'd say with plenty of room for more caches.
Took 2 coins, left 2 coins and a Pathtag and thanks Tankengine for yet another cache.
Cheers,
I headed over this way on the way home this evening. Not being one to baulk at a good climb I parked my car at the creek below and made my way up the steep access road to the GZ. Quite a nice little walk that got the heart pumping a little but not that steep.
After making my way to the top of the hill I too had a relatively easy find. The views in this area are simply stunning and well worth the visit.
TNLN and thanks Tankengine for yet another great caching experience.
After making my way to the top of the hill I too had a relatively easy find. The views in this area are simply stunning and well worth the visit.
TNLN and thanks Tankengine for yet another great caching experience.
24 hours, that would just about have to be a record! Are McPhan and Squirrel away?