Big Fella Bogong, Victoria, Australia
By
kake is good on 23-Apr-05. Waypoint GCNP3Y
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We are currently enjoying one of our semi-regular hiking adventures up in our favourite part of the world once again; the Victorian Alpines. A few times a year, we are down visiting family in the north-east from the NSW central coast. For the annual xmas trip we try to fit in some adventure and this year it's Bogong.
We set off from the Staircase Spur at 8.08am, arriving at Bivouac Hut at 10.26am for a rest stop, and then after a few more stops we finally made the summit (after the ~1300m climb) at 1.24pm.
The weather was pretty good on the way up but once we broke through the tree line, the wind noticeably picked up. But once at the final turn approx. 250m from the summit, the wind was completely NUTS so that was where we changed clothes and donned the wind breakers. Once at the summit we enjoyed a lunch break, having the area to ourselves for about 15 mins before meeting a muggle who was a seasoned hiker on his way to Cleve Cole Hut for the night. It was great talking to him as he confirmed locations spied clearly from the summit such as the Horn, the Kosciusko area, Feathertop and Hotham, and Dartmouth dam.
Once we were finished at the summit, we broke into two groups; lady novo and eldest geokid carefully and slowly beginning the return journey (this time via the Eskdale Spur) whilst youngest geokid and I went to make this find and also hopefully some of the ones out on the western plateaus, to then backtrack and meet the other two down at Michell Hut, estimating being approx an hour behind them.
The hide here at big fulla was tricky as we (I) must have made an error with the projection because we made the find some 30m or so round from where the GPS said. Once we made the find here, the rain kicked in a bit but the wind was that strong that we didn't really get that wet. We then set off for the caches out along the western peaks however the further west we walked the stronger the wind and rain got so we only made the first of the three caches at the Hooker Plateau as we decided to pull the pin and quit while we were still ahead. It continued to rain (on and off) back across big fulla and all the way down to about the treeline on the Eskdale, which turned out being the toughest part of the whole day due to the potential of slipping on the wet rocks down this very steep part of the spur. We then finally met up with the other two at the hut at 4.03pm where they informed us they had only arrived ten minutes prior! So it all worked out pretty well.
The descent from there down the rest of the spur was full on BRUTAL on these 50+yo knees of mine but once down beyond the Gap on the flat(ish) Mountain Creek 4WD track (heading westwards towards the Staircase trailhead to sign off), it was a little easier again. This section of the walk took us through a number of different trails/ short-cuts and eco systems, not to mention two of three water crossings which involved removing the shoes. Water was COLD. The full loop of the Staircase Trailhead took us 11.5hrs all up (arrived back at 7.39pm). All afternoon from Michell Hut it had threatened to pour with rain and while it did sprinkle on and off whilst down on Mountain Creek 4WD track, it held off right until we got to the car where it finally dumped just as we drove off!
Today was probably our toughest day's hiking yet but still (perhaps oddly) one of the best ways we could have finished 2022 that we can think of! The Victorian High Country never disappoints! TFTC, kake is good.
#1548
I made it! The highest mountain in Victoria!
Day1976 showed me how to work this multi out, but had projected a bit off coords, and so as I wandered off a different direction to try find the cache, he yelled out that he had it in the opposite direction.
I had no idea how to configure my GPS to project a waypoint in magnetic north. Also, not having a local map on me I had no idea of the magnetic declination of the area. So I just projected a waypoint in true north and looked west for some area as described and was mega surprised to be able to find this cache!
Thanks kake is good
TFTC +1 favourite point.
- / - / -
During our holiday road trip in the high country victoria. It was a very nice and surprising trip in this part of the Australian Alps. Some highlights were the Mt Bogong, Mt Feathertop also called " Queen of the Alps", Mt Buffalo and Mt Buller.
Cache was found in great condition.
Didn’t find anyone special on the way up to use the condom with, but thanks anyway
TFTC!
FBTJ #3038
Thanks for placing and maintaining this cache, kake is good.
Thanks kake is good for the multi placement with great views.
I started off down at Mountain Creek in shorts and t-shirt. Climbed up Staircase spur and as I got close to the half way mark there was the occasional flurry of hail/snow.
Spent a few minutes in Bivouac hut on the way up, chatting with someone sheltering there, and taking shelter - it was pouring for a moment there.
Got above the treeline still with shorts and t-shirt - but within a couple of hundred metres of reaching the exposed part of the spur, quickly donned all the clothing I had with me - jumper, raincoat, trousers. Very windy in the final section, and quite chilly, with a bit of ice/snow flying around.
Entered the wrong bearing at the top, and by the time I had corrected it my phone had chickened out - from 35% battery to giving up very quickly, due to the cold and hail.
Found the cache quickly by looking for the most likely place nearby - which was fortunate, as it was not a place I wanted to linger in. All plans to have lunch up the top or explore a bit further were immediately discard. As I retreated from the cache, the winds and hail picked up, most uncomfortable.
Thanks for the cache.
Not to much snow around yet so the cache was located quickly.
I was even good enough to find the cache without getting my gps out!
Icy cold winds sweeping across the top this morning ️️
After taking photos at the cairn we made our way towards GZ. We spread out, checking all likely spots as we went. Pretty soon we found it (33m to the right from our projection).
This cache was our second find up here today and we were the 2nd people to sign the log *today*!!
Thanks for placing the cache kake is good - it added more enjoyment to our hike.
With 4 successful finds around Mt Buller, and making the hike up to the top of the Big Fella again, the challenge was set to continue…
After a night’s rest at Cleve Cole Hut, it was a pleasant walk back across the top to the summit. With the temperature forecast to reach 40 degrees down on the plains, we were glad to be up where the air was a bit cooler.
Arriving at the summit, we read the cache notes…head 300 degrees magnetic. Can a phone GPS do that???? I don’t think so, or I don’t know how. After a tiny bit of thought, Kettle twin 2 declared that 300 degrees magnetic would be about out there (he points). Taking him at his word, Ma Kettle headed off in that direction (at least she could measure the correct distance). It was going to be very tricky going 116m there, but adjusting the angle slightly, she spotted a more likely spot and went the required distance and there was a nicely hidden cache. She signed the log and returned to other 2 members of the team.
It was hard to stand still to take in the glorious views, with swarms of March flies seizing every opportunity to attack and bite. With a lot more hiking ahead (and it really wasn’t that cool, even on top of the mountain) we kept moving and headed out towards West Peak.
A satisfying find of a cache that has stood the test of time.
After attending the event DADDYKOOL and I headed off to go and complete this multi, after a little looking around at GZ we came up with nothing, but after slowly expanding our radius the cache soon revealed itself. Eitherway thanks for the cache and the adventure.
After having a rest at Michells hut, it was time to continue our journey and conquer the Big Fella !! Thankfully the second half of our journey wasn't as bad. It was still a monster climb, but much more scenic as well. Eventually we made it to the top and made the projection. It took us awhile to find, as it was nowhere near where the numbers indicated, Looking around, we applied our geo senses to make the find. Glad to have a smiley on this one. TFTC kake is good
The trek started out tough. We had a bit over 5km's to the summit with the hut about half way. We took our time, not needed to rush anything and we are glad we did. The first 750 meters was tough going. As we approached the hut, we saw snow. Lots of it [:o] Not what we were expecting, but prepared for it no the less. After about 2 hours we finally reached the hut. After another 2 hours we were on the peak. Wow! What a feeling it was to be up here. The snow gave this trek another element. It was tough going and so rewarding with mostly clear views for 360deg.
The cache projection was done and the search was now on. With nothing really near the co-ords we had worked out we wondered where this cache could be. We spread out al long way to work out where this one was. Thankfully we were able to find it after much searching, some 30 meters away from where our projection was.
**Thanks to kake is good for hiding this cache for us to find and enjoy**
So in the morning the A-team of Pacman, Pacgirl and Snoopy hiked up, up, up, up the devil's staircase, had an overnight party at Cleve Cole hut, and then flew back down the staircase the next morning in time for lunch in Bright.
Gotta love the Victorian High Country! And it doesn't get higher in Victoria than this .
The cache was a little tricky to find, so I disregarded the GPSr and used intuition to home in on the cache.
Thanks for the multi, kake is good.
Up the spur track we headed and it just seemed to keep going up. After Mitchell's Hut it was more up to and soon above the tree line. We could see the summit cairn but figured we would do that on return as part of a big day out with the Phone pedometer showing over 50,000 steps taken and over 400 storeys of stairs climbed.
It was now into the afternoon having done a loop to the south so it was time for the summit and the western side.
Big Fella Cairn stood out a long way and we took our mark after of course climbing it. No problem making the find. Great views. Only a bit of snow on the southern sides. TFTC.
I dropped my pack at thevtop of the Eskdale Spur and headed for the cairn. That was easy enough. There was an english fellow sitting there making himself a brew. In our brief chat he revealed his intention to camp there for the night so that he could view the sunsetvand sunrise from the same spot. Not a bad idea if the conditions allow.
Onto the cache. It didn't take long. A couple of bearing corrections and there it was in good condition.
No real view today due to low cloud, so I will have to come back for that. Thanks for the placement.
On a 5 day leave pass, I decided to hit the hills for some high country caching.
After spending the previous night in Michelle's hut, I woke up early to cold, wind and rain. Well - you didn't come all this way to sleep in a hut at the bottom of the hill. I packed up my overnight gear, got the hiking poles out, thermals on and appropriate gear. Going up the hill was slow going - literally hiking in straight cloud, with 5m visibility - I'm sure there is a view out there.
Eventually I arrived at the cairn and set down my bags, sheltering against the wind. Right...where is this cache. Project a waypoint! Ahh come on this is a trad...with my less than 5% phone battery left I projected and found a suitable area. No luck at determined area - I spread out my search and soon found the cache sitting in the open - bonus. Signed the log and determined what was next.
Thanks kake_is_good for the epic cache - sure the views are usually worth it!
This was the fifth of 19 that we grabbed over the 3 days, with no DNF's whatsoever - a family record!!!
This was almost a DNF. We gave it a crack soon after finishing a grinding Staircase trek that had started the previous afternoon. But with a combination of phone GPS that didn't quite want to settle, and a slightly misbehaving compass we found ourselves at the wrong set of rocks. HOWEVER, what we did find was a plaque with a beautiful tribute from a lady to her sadly-departed husband. We hunted left and right without joy but needed to press on, undeterred, to grab other caches.
On our way back from the West Peak we decided to give this one more crack. GPS seemed to be behaving, took a bearing and strode out in the appropriate direction, and almost stubbed our toes on the correct set of rocks. Victory!!!
Thanks heaps for bringing us up to this amazing place, and to our compass for firstly sending us to the little plaque, then for actually getting us the find.
Someone had inappropriately helped out
Look for the DNA sample and the associated litter.
So we carried on under turd.
And
Found the treasure.
This is a wonderful place that is rarely visited. At least by geocachers. That was discovered because so many of the high terraine had never signed those one either here or others around here.
Our excuse.
Last time here, in deep snow, in high winds and whitehout conditions, it was significantly harder. No rocks could not even be found.
Today though, the discovery was easier, near the decomposing organic matter
Thanks to the paperwork.
On my first multi day hike expedition why not start at the top. About 2 months I inform the wife of this cache and my desire to visit this location. She said that I was nuts and that I should try something a bit smaller and not to get my hopes up. Well this was just more determination to prove that it could be done. All comments thou did spook me just a little so team up with the hardcore cacher ahomburg who had done the hike before more then once.
So now finally after much puffing and panting up the hill over a period of 5.5hrs the mission was completed, yay!!.[xx(] I can't believe that those trail runners can get up here in under 90mins, amazing!!.
Once at the summit the phone was switch on and a txt sent to inform the good wife that I had made it and that I was still alive.
Conditions this weekend were perfect with little to no wind and clear sunny conditions. Came up the staircase and gees, now that was an experience. A real thigh burner and stopped so many times that I lost count but by the 1200m mark I had figured out a system that suited my fitness, probably should of done some training too. The system was simple walk 5-10m and stop for 1min, I found it was about managing the heart rate or stopping before it would burst out thru my chest like some aliens do...
At this time the only other person at the summit was a Frenchman so easy to grab a photo standing on the highest point in Victoria. There were so many flies which I found curious and growing annoyed by them we headed off to find this cache with the offset required already applied in the eTrex30 not too far away. Maybe this should be a letter box cache type.
In reflection after having signed the log I felt rather pleased with myself as I was a bit unsure what to expect and suspect that my previous experiences with geocaching as helped alot in the mental battle one goes thru in getting here. I do believe my experiences in doing the Denail series of caches at Mt Buller helped alot, now that was 2 crazy days...
As I am unsure when the next time I would be here we headed over to check out West peak to find a couple more caches along the way. The views from West peak were just as good and well worth the effort, we were back at the summit by 3pm.
We headed off to Cleve Cole Hut, which is by far the best hut that I have seen so far and with cool spring water on tap running all year round, it turns out that I didn't need to carry that extra 2L after all.
One of the most difficult caches done so far and a big thank you for it was this cache that convinced me to upgrade a few items to be able to get up here. Now super keen to get to those other high country caches that have been placed in this fine state of Victoria.
An experience I will not forget.
TFTC kake is good
Ascents:
**B**LACXV - Many
A - a few less
J - 2
K&W 1 and I hope many more to come for them, perhaps next time with their cousin.
TFTC and the great view from it's location.
I swore I would get back here and a year later, some 20kg lighter and many gym sessions under my belt I tried again.
When I arrived at my campsite last night Mt Bogong was as clear as could be. I felt a shiver of nerves as I knew The Big Fella and I had some unsettled business to attend to in the morning.
The local Aboriginals hold Mt. Bogong with great significance and reverence. There is a real spirit about the place. If you stay still long enough and quiet enough you can almost hear it speak to you. I am not a religious man, nor am I spiritual, however I think I 'get' this significance.
The Big Fella was really dressed up today. He was enveloped with cloud from halfway up. It covered him like a big trench coat. I hoped that the cloud would burn off during the climb. At 7:50 I set out.
From the start of the Stairway Spur the climb began straight away. I felt my legs burning from the get go. I hoped like hell that my increase in fitness levels would overcome the cramping that I have been so used to when doing anything that required endurance.
The views were becoming obscured the further up I went with the trench coat of cloud playing havoc. I climbed, climbed, rested and climbed. All was going well, no cramps. Soon I was past the hut and things were looking up (480 or so more metres up).
I saw two blokes, one of which were wearing camouflage. I walked up to his friend and said, "Hi there. Oh, it sounded like there were two of you talking". Mr. Camouflage piped up, "There are, are you blind?".
Hmmmm, he just didn't get it.
Eventually I broke through the treeline and the clouds were coming in thicker. Time to rug up. I soon came across the sobering memorial to the people who died in a blizzard up here. The cloud was so thick that I had to get up close to read the plaque. The track was still clear and the snow poles were still silhouetting so I decided to continue.
One more turn and I was there. I did it!!! There was a cairn, the highest piece of ground in Victoria.
I didn't know whether to laugh or to cry, whether to sing, dance or just try to get some feeling back in my hands. As I sat at the cairn a young boy and his mum came up. He asked me, "Do you sit here all day?" I answered, "Yes, I am here to collect the admission, do you have any money?"
He wasn't sure what to say so I mugged him.....NOOO, just kidding. I just laughed and took a picture of him and his mum standing at the cairn.
But there was the little issue with the cache.
I projected the waypoint and followed the compass but my GZ put me elsewhere.....I figured perhaps the clouds have put things out a bit so I widened my search area and after a bit of looking found it. This time I did cry. All those feelings of inadequacy from last time, all those times people told me I couldn't do it, all those times I doubted myself just flooded out.
Then it happened. It was as if The Big Fella just said, "Dave, this is for you". Like a big old 1986 metre tall flasher he opened that trench coat of cloud. My heart pounded as the landscape was exposed around me.
I was on top of the world. I actually laid on the ground and gave The Big Fella a hug. Thank you, thank you and thank you.
As I wandered back to the cairn I saw the cloud had lifted from all directions. What a view. As Leonardo Di Caprio once said, "I'm king of the world". Pffft, standing on the deck of a ship about to slip beneath the Atlantic doesn't make one a king. Standing up here, seeing the countryside; that's a regal experience.
TFTC. Caching is more than getting a box and signing a log, it's a journey, an experience. This one ticked all the boxes. It is simply one of the best I have ever done.
After a big day attending the' Not for the Faint Hearted' GC64W4A event the previous day, I had the idea to climb Mount Bogong on my way home.
It was the first time climbing Mount Bogong for me and the Devil's staircase was tough going with my already tired legs but I managed to get to the summit in good time.
I managed to choose a good morning for it too! I got passed by many runners doing a cross country running event, running up Bogong like it was flat ground.
Really enjoyed the climb and the views at the summit.
Gets a Goat point from me.
???
I hadn't realized that this one was an off-set multi when I started, but once at GZ it was easily completed and I soon had the cache container in hand.
I had intended on spending a few more hour up on the plain to grab the others up here, but unfortunately it was sleeting rain sideways and I called it a day not long after finding this one and escaped off the mountain, already planning my next return.
Cache is in excellent condition, TFTC kake is good. A favourite, of course!
Had some trouble on their nav. I think we may need to do following a bearing again!
Finally found it before heading to clever Cole for the night
Surprise surprise, when we reached the top at around 13.30 there was another guy who had just come up via the stairwell. We had a chat, eventually told him about geocaching and invited him to join us in the search. He had heard about it but decided to turn around and hike back as he still had a long way to go down (ánd he needed to drive back to Melbourne on the same day!).
We started our search, heading in more or less the right direction, and we noticed a few possible hiding spots. A bit of searching and we found it! It must be VIC's highest geocache.
We spend a little more time at the top enjoying the scenery and taking heaps of photo's before the descent.
Great place for a cache. We would have done the hike anyway, but finding a cache makes it always just that little bit more rewarding. TFTC!
Oh, and we took the diabates TB to continue it's journey.
This is the first traditional cache that I've had to do something to find the cache somewhere other than the posted coordinates. After a bit of a search, one of the kids spotted a rock that needed further inspection, and the cache was found.
It's an absolute ripper of a day up here today! Spectacular views all around! TFTC
TFTC
Two of the group started scouring the cairn as soon as they arrived, until I arrived a few minutes later with others from the group and the GPSr. When that indicated that GZ was near where they had already searched, we started looking for hints and reading the description - "oh, it isn't here. it's over there." (I think this should be a Mystery or Multi rather than traditional.) Anyway a few calculations were made and programmed in, but I think it must have been working on Map North rather than Magnetic North as it had us about 50m away. A bit of problem solving and we had a new likely location. Glad to find it as it's a long way to come for a DNF. Log signed. Now to enjoy the views before the hike back down. TFTC.
We used old school tech (a compass) but were a little off. We spent about 20 mins searching in the wrong place, until I managed to revive my device. Then, I could do the calculation properly, which got us a lot closer and we found it almost instantly. Despite the snow pack, it wasn't buried. TNLN, TFTC
Mit Pops! Alright. If you don't know the comic-duo Badesalz you most probably don't get the joke so let's move on ... [url=http://coord.info/GLBPM4V6]again[/url] This is truly the first winter-FTF for this cache after eight years. There are no finds in the months June to September. Yeah to me
It all began with [url=http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=caa16806-e33c-452b-90d6-4d9a2a75fa8f]Lex[/url] placing his [url=http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GC4447V]1700+ Alpine Challenge[/url] which clearly states
[quote]WE DO NOT RECOMMEND THAT THIS CACHE OR ANY QUALIFYING CACHES BE ATTEMPTED IN THE SNOW SEASON.[/quote]
Oh well. I guess it was meant more like a guideline than an actual rule. So I started my little quest of finding these 1700+ caches and testing my mountaineering gear. With my girl-friend out of the country to climb higher peaks I set myself the challenge to get as many VIC mountain-caches as I can in these seven weeks. Unfortunately Anna kept me from climbing the mountain[url=http://coord.info/GLBTY098]last weekend[/url] where the weather was way more favourable. Bad luck, suck it up princess, have a table-spoon of concrete and get up the mountain this weekend. Who cares about 90 km/h wind and a wind-chill of -24 °C?
The plan was to get up there find this one, move on to West Peak , set-up camp and maybe go for Devils Delight as a de-tour on the way back. Given my experience with these hides in winter I would call one out of three smileys a success.
It all went pretty well on Saturday morning - due to the freshly graded track to the bottom of Eskdale Spur you can drive to the trailhead in a standard 2WD. I shouldered my back-pack - Freaking hell! Why is that bloody thing so heavy?!? ... ah yeah ... I packed an ammo-can as a cache ... ooops. Anyway. I made my way up to the tree-line past Michell Hut without any problems. At the hut I joined a crew of snowboarders / skiers who went to the summit as well so the four of us crawled up the snow slopes. I met the guys a day later at the hut again and they showed me some pics - they had a couple of good runs!
Arriving at the summit I said good-bye and made my way to GZ just to find a tiny hump in the snow. Oh boy. This might take a while and I really didn't bring my ice-axe. Damn. Just based on a hunch I started digging which was more like hacking on thick layers of ice. After about 15 minutes I was able to loose a rock which I abused as an ice-pick. I don't know for how long I was knocking, digging and hitting the ice but eventually I saw a piece of pipe! Ohhhh yeah! I must have had a little happy dance before it took me another 10 minutes to get the cache out of the ice.
After that I moved on towards the [url=http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GC443VH]West Pea[/url]k but you can read all about it in that log.
Thanks for a very memorable cache and a pretty rugged container.
[green]Cheers
Philipp[/green]
My special thanks goes to my geofriend Purrfect75 for take me there from Falls Creek via Cleve Cole Hut.
Had good experience since last Tuesday.
Stay around here for an hour.
More trekkers arrives here and leave here after take photos.
Thanks kake is good for bring me here and cache.
This entry was edited by Whitepaws9 on Friday, 12 April 2013 at 00:30:31 UTC.
Looking good!
thanks kake is good (mmm kake) for the cache TNLN
So with more than one reason to climb the mountain again we were off on another adventure with Skullracing and Kiara001.
It was a long haul to the top, but it was a spectacular day to crack the summit one more time, with fine company we all had a few laughs, it was a cracker jack day.
When we got to the cairn it was like muggle central, people everywhere, but alas they paid us no heed.
Just after we had a bite to eat we did the projected way-point, and soon enough we had the cache in hand.
Well done "kake is good" on a well located cache, the container and contents are all okay.
Hiked from Mountain Creek Camp up the Eskdale Spur and made the Summit at about 6.15pm. I had some time to find this cache before heading down to Michell Hut before night fall. Thanks very much for placing a cache up here, an added bonus for such an adventurous walk up the highest peak in Victoria. Also, thanks for others posting some photos of the cache, it helped with pinpointing which rocks the cache was hiding in. Noticed that I missed Team Oaky by less than an hour! Took in the fantastic views before I headed back down.
TFTC
cheers
pippin69
Cant get much higher in Vic!
After an awesome hike to ground zero (easy to say once at the summit) Felt like I was on top of the world with great weather and absolutely fantastic views, this cache was just the icing on the cake for lack of a better word
Did the projection at home, which made it more of a trad cache so a quick easy find was made. The only muggles that were around was a few officials setting up for tomorrows Mt Bogong challenge,(should make the descent tomorrow interesting)
Thx Kake is good for placing the highest cache in Vic. Totally awesome!!
I hope this cache lives on as it is a must do! Mt Bogong Hike at EveryTrail
Cheers
TeamOaky
This entry was edited by TeamOaky on Monday, 12 March 2012 at 09:27:19 UTC.
The Hut was built in 1937 as a memorial to Cleve Cole who died while skiing in 1936, and had previously completed the first winter ascent of Mt Bogong.
We took the Scullracing pathtag.
Note: The inside of the container is damp but the two log books are dry!
Also, the pencil is broken. It was split end to end because it was wet.
TFTC
This entry was edited by Riddell on Sunday, 29 January 2012 at 12:03:39 UTC.
Took: nothing
Left: pretty cool Pathtag
Once again lucky with great weather and views it really is worth the walk.
TFTC
This entry was edited by shane.thompson on Monday, 30 May 2011 at 02:32:09 UTC.
This entry was edited by shane.thompson on Monday, 30 May 2011 at 02:32:57 UTC.
Despite a sore foot had a fantastic early morning walk to the summit and my second attempt at this one in 3 days. It was a beautiful morning with low cloud in the valley. My first attempt I had vision of just 20M in front of me and no chance of locating this one. This time all was clear and I found the cache without any problems. It was half filled with water but the new log was dry. The pencil is looking a little the worse for wear. I dried them out for a few minutes while taking in the view. I was on the top of the highest Victorian mountain whithout another soul about. Now it was time to head back to mountain creek via Eskdale spur.
Thanks to kake is good for the cache.