Glenloch Gridlock Yarralumla, Australian Capital Territory, Australia
By Tankengine & BBBumblebee on 04-Nov-08. Waypoint GC1HVT4

Couldnt find it

Another cache which has had me not attempting it due to its positioning, like the last one, it wasn't actually that bad. Walked near the road to GZ and got a lot of strange looks from passing cars, ducked around the wall and the grass started getting long and there were spiderwebs everywhere. GPS was bouncing around but searched in the logical spot and the cache was found and signed. A terrific spot here, I'll give a favourite. It's so impressive!

Tftc

Did some battle with the grasses, but got there in the end!

Our gps was a bit off from GZ, comments really helped, tftc

Logsheet replaced - old log attached!
GOOD TO GO!!!

After deciding on a spontaneous Geocaching trip this morning, I decided on finding some more caches around the middle of Canberra before the event in the late afternoon. I headed straight for a solved puzzle around ‘Lake Burley Griffin’ plus others nearby. Then I headed to the other side of the lake and found a few labs and whatever caches that were nearby. Afterwards, I headed to the parking area of the event and arrived very early at about 3:40pm. The event only started at 5:30pm. So, I decided on finding the nearby Trads and a lab. This added 8 more to the total for today. For the event, of course I was the first to arrive and I after signing the log sheet, I didn’t stay to long as I needed to get back home which is a 2.5 hourish drive. Overall, I made 32 finds today and enjoyed every minute of it. TB visit on all caches. I would like to thank all CO’s of the caches I found today and for allowing them to bring me and the caching community enjoyment. TFTE & TFTC’s!

While passing by, I decided on finding this one as well as another nearby. It was a nice quick find here and soon was on my way. It's always nice to find a pre-2010 cache. Thanks for bringing me here.

Took a long time as we picked the wrong objects to search, comarocket found it just as we were thinking of giving up! TFTC )

Was looking in wrong spot for a bit, very fun find! tftc

Interesting place to get to. tftc

#675 I had picked up this chunk of caches in the Glen Loch Interchange area a while back but I've now realised I never actually claimed them as found. I'm coming back and correcting this now.

I remember searching for this one and having to decide having to decide what height we needed to be looking from. After concluding which height would make more sense it was a quick walk and speedy find. Thanks for the hide here

Find #4172

Out for a little caching on my two hour window for adventure! Lockdown has bought a totally different approach to caching with the introduction of homework! Much time for homework in fact. Therefore many more puzzles solved, both as a solo and collective effort. Thanks to my fellow geo buddies for assistance when needed.

And in between were a few traditionals, though not nearly as many of them left these days

Logs all in good condition unless otherwise noted.

Thanks to Tankengine for putting out and maintaining all of these caches for our enjoyment!

Wet logsheet replaced! Good to go!

Log is drenched, didn’t sign.

Very wet log. Just managed sign it. Tfth

Headed in to the GZ with DeadThief hopeful that we were on the right level.
Not actually being on a road we assumed we were correct.
At the GZ the cache was soon spotted by the Thief and we did our best to write on the log. It was unfortunately saturated. Surprising considering where it was.
Cache then returned and we headed off to attempt Glenloch Gorge!
Thanks TE & BBB.

Today I targeted the traditional caches around Glenloch Interchange and the Cork Oak forest for a nice morning walk before the forecast thunderstorms rolled in. Glad I had my gaiters and boots on - the grass was about 120cm tall in places for the transit to this cache from Loch Glen and I dread stepping on a wriggly stick (GeoKid tried to step on a black snake caching last weekend, so I'm a bit wary right now). Took me a while at GZ to locate the cache which was cunningly hidden, but found after a systematic search. Thanks, Tankengine.

I think speed (of the cars) is your friend here.
Took me a little while to get this one, but eventually found it.
Now back through long grass in prime snake habitat ...

TFTC

decide to come out to get some air and sun.. was meant to come here for awhile but finally i did it today lovely walk around sign and placed back where belong.. TFTC Tankengine and BBBumblebee

I decided to get some caches around this area this morning before heading home to binge the AFL (so glad that it's back). Tried this cache years ago with no luck, despite searching for a long time. Today, I reattempted it after grabbing the nearby, younger cache; and almost as soon as I reached GZ, I spotted the cache - wowee! A cool location; one of the very few places people would ever expect to find a cache. TFTC TE and BBBB - great to get another cache from two decades ago!

Quick find turning this into a smiley. Interesting spot to walk to though. All good with the cache and another TE one collected. TFTC Tankengine

Found today with Joolay. Haha this one will no longer taunt me as I drive past

Condition Report:. Good and dry
Log Status:. Lots of room

Thanks for hiding this cache Tankengine

This was my first cache of the morning. Not owning a bike, I'd always wondered how you made it to the middle of the interchange in one piece! Interesting little spot. TFTC Tankengine

Easy find for me and my friends but my sister and parents weren’t as lucky tftc

A quick find today thanks signed dsd

Not so quick a find but well spotted by younger eyes than mine. Tftc

A bit of a bush bash through to this one, where we made a systematic search. Took a few minutes before the sneaky hide was spotted. TFTC!

Was just about to leave empty handed when I spotted it. Thankfully! Tftc!

Bushbashing to find

Yuk

Trip to Canberra for workshop on evening.. Anyway enjoyed for a day some caches..
sign the log with good dry..
TFTC

Found it.. busy road.. thanks

I have been meaning to do this cache for years. Life has always got in the way. Today the stars aligned, cache found, log signed and replaced. Thanks Tankengine & BBBumblebee

A morning on Black Mountain led a few caches on the way back down, and this was a "must do" as we passed back under the road. Plenty of spider-loaded webs on our way to the cache, but a speedy entry & exit was still managed. Thanks for the cache Tankengine & BBBumblebee

After a morning of household jobs & tedium, my geoson & I headed out for some caches before picking up bushwalkinggirl from school.

The little man wasn't keen on walking through the long grass, so was carried most of the way from Loch Glen. He thought it was pretty cool watching the cars zoom past, but wasn't much of a fan of the spider webs & grass.

I managed to find the missing cache from 2014, but didn't find the replacement before headed back to the car. TFTC!

I headed off early for the Monday evening Omnia walk to Gossan Hill which gave me a couple of hours in which to seek out the remaining traditional geocaches in the vicinity of Glenloch Interchange that I hadn’t previously found. I collected five in all, one more remaining elusive and running out of time for the seventh. This cache was a straightforward find, being in open view within a few metres of the coordinates. I walked in from the bike path that heads up to Cook. Thank you Tankengine and BBBumblebee for installing and maintaining this cache.

Having found 'Loch Glen', I wandered to this cache. The walk was much easier than the approach to the previous cache, and despite having to make a minor altitude adjustment with 5m to go, the cache was soon in hand.
TFTC, Tankengine

Trekked over from loch glen to here as sun went down. Thankfully after a quick scan of my first choice location my improving instincts turned me around and there was the cache. Now walking back to the car - a pleasant walk with the bikes along the path. I saw an echidna blocking bike traffic in the underpass on the way to the cache. He scuttled off after a while. Makes a change after about one million kangaroos - that I always enjoy seeing - we've run across while caching so far. Tftc and bringing me to the maze.

Happy to have an old DNF ticked off and and old cache all in one go. I DNFed this when it was a fake rock years ago. My how the trees have grown since then.

Thanks TE

F(H)ound it! #2759 @ 3:45 PM

Out for a walk with Lethal Porpoise and the geohounds. We got sidetracked from doing the cork plantation to have a go at a couple inside the spaghetti bowl.
After Loch Glen we thought we'd have a tilt at this one. Managed to unnecessarily climb a hill and then had to carefully pick our way back down to GZ. I made a systematic search while LP held onto the geohounds (I think a litle nervously) I eventually found it and got a great view of the multidimensional Interchange. Makes one feel like they are inside an Escher drawing.

Thanks for the cache, Tankengine & BBBumblebee, that was fun and rewarding

Took a while but got there in the end. TFTC

do not know how I missed it the first time, quite an easy one tftc

after the easy find at Loch Glen I found this site quite easily following the path to nowhere or somewhere, unfortunately I ran out of time and the little bugger alluded me, next time.

Well, what can I say about this one. I thought I was just getting an quick one on the way to work! The park and walk was relatively easy and quick, though a little squelchy underfoot, but when I get to GZ I then spend the next 20 minutes scratching around getting nowhere. Out of desperation I put out the call to a former finder and they give me the one word I really needed to here.... ahh, ok. Soon after I had the cache in hand and quickly signed. The location itself seems a little crazy, it was very noisy and I was wondering what the passers by would be thinking if they glanced my way. Thanks for placing and maintaining this cache

I have many smileys surrounding this cache but I have always seemed to miss it because of its unique positioning. I attempted to find it before an event one day but couldn't find an appropriate way to access.

Today I decided to just bee-line straight for it! I managed to park on Lady Denman Drive and the walk was less than 200m! Nice and easy

It was about Midday on a Tuesdsay so not too many cars in the gridlock meant that I could cross the roads safely.

Once I was at GZ I made a remarkable quick find. LOVE this location, this is another cache that is my kind of style, a bit daring and unique! Will give you a favourite point despite the frustration and time it took to finally make my way to GZ after eyeing it off many times.

Didn't find it

Mmm. This one took me some time...as hint was of no help. Tftc anyway:). HOTA

This one was a challenge and full honours to Travel Granny who has been lusting after this one for a few weeks. Instructions are spot on - you do not have to cross any roads to get to this one. Couldn't believe Hota was there on the same day. Thanks, Tanks - you did it again!

With dty73 for this one. Great photo opportunities too. Dty73 braved the traffic to clear a possum trap off the road that must have fallen from someone's trailer. Unbelievable how many motorists almost collided with it. Must be that they couldn't see the fine mesh. Thanks for another great location. Kutgw

Youban and I parked at Lady Denman Drive near the cycle path. Followed the paths to the road then walked along the road to GZ. Such a dangerous road to cross, but was so surprised how many people almost hit a possum cage, just off the road. Pretty cool place at GZ. Tftc Tankengine!!!

Well, there's the right way and the wrong but safe way of getting to this one. Heading along the bike path I turned up the smaller side path to gain access to the bush, trampled through a multitude of blackberries and long grass, finally arriving to GZ. Thankfully with a bit of Tankengine logic the cache was found soon after. After replacing the cache, I took the right way back to the bike path - walking along the side of the road. You could almost park 'n grab this one, although you would want to do this when the roads are quiet!

TFTC TE

Ok, possible answer to the bridges being all different. Different contractors got a bridge each. They were given dimensions but no design guidance, and of course they couldn't speak with each other due to confidentiality clauses in their contracts. So everyone delivered the best bridge they could! May not be true, but if you've ever worked on a government contract...

Next, the cache itself. I was a bit reluctant to go to where it had to be, and searched where I hoped it was. Which it wasn't. I found a reasonable way to where I thought it would be and it was. I did drop part of the container, but fortunately it didn't fall far - that could have been disastrous!

Finally, it was great to be out in the Aussie bush. Crimson and Eastern Rosellas, magpies, magpie larks, ravens, and of course kangaroos. The sounds of the Aussie bush were, unfortunately drowned out by the sounds of the traffic. And the collisions between the Aussie bush and the traffic were evident in the omnipresent odour of decomposing road-killed kangaroos! At least it wasn't hot! TFTC, Tankengine.

Note: I was calendar challenged and dated the log 24/4 not 22/4.

After a little time out of action with an injury, it was great to get back into geocaching today. The caches around Glenloch Interchange have long caught my eye and after much internal debate about where to park, I ended up at Black Mountain Reserve carpark.

I initially headed off towards Glenloch Gorge, but chose the wrong direction on the bike path. Eventually going off path I ended up beside the road and at a dead end. I check my phone app for directions and was surprised to find **Glenloch Gridlock** only 20 metres away. After clearing lots of spider webs and broadening my search, it was an easy find. Some time later I found myself walking beside a road leading onto the Tuggeranong Parkway. I checked for directions and this time found GrimKittyTB Hotel 65 metres away. What a great container that is (with HEAPS of spare space inside)!

From there it became a bit more purposeful as I skipped over Lady Denman Drive and through the grass to Grey Plague Revisited, having failed to find its earlier incarnation. From there across to the Arboretum entrance and an easy cross country walk to Cork Oak Road and up to an easy find at Toystory Marker Drop. From there, across to a too-easy find at The Funnel, which was lying in the open. I tucked it away in a covered spot a metre-and-a-half away and still matching the hint. Then up to Put A Cork In It. This was a very clever hide, but I was at the right angle to spot it immediately.

Leaving the pleasant shade of the cork forest, I passed under a couple of roads and took the cycle path up to Frog In A Sock, which... was. Very cute and clever hide. Finally, I went back under one of the roads and into the long grass on the way to Glenloch Gorge. There is probably no right way to get to this one, but I did find a fairly inefficient way, as I tend to do. A bit of searching around GZ - there are quite a few spots that match the hint - but persistence paid off, as it tends to do.

A few blackberry cuts later and a quick dash across the William Hovell Drive off ramp and I was back at the Black Mountain Reserve car park. A successful outing with plenty of exercise gained and eight caches in the bag. To all who placed these varied caches in their interesting and unique locations - TFTC

Sigh. Almost 12 m from my phone's gz. I knew it was here but I didn't find it sill my feet slipped and i Found myself sliding to an advantageous point. Clear sight then.
Today was supposed to be a walk up black mountain but directionally challenged as I am I couldn't find the car park I used last time. Oh well it is flat trails then. I goto admit I'm feeling a bit foolish though with so many people riding by. I grabbed warm clothes... my green scrubs trousers, pink and white stripe shirt, pink socks black shoes and a navy and a black jumpers. I certainly won't be hit my traffic. All I need now is the appropriate clown makeup.
Tftc

Had just dropped a couple of trackables off nearby, so while on Lady Denman drive was able to park very close by and walk in through the bike paths and under the roads. A short walk up the mowed edge to the cache and cache soon found. A good time to go now for anyone, while looking for the cache, I managed to walk through all the spiders and webs so it's fairly clear! Quite an amazing location, all the cars wizzing so close by and all the noise they make. Thanks for the cache Tankengine, can honestly say this is one location without a cache to bring me in, I would never have visited but glad I have!

I parked off William Hovell Dr at the car park off the old Caswell Dr and walked along the bike path. No need to cross any of the busy roads and I was soon close to GZ. Once there it took a few minutes before I was able to spot the hide. Lots of grass seeds and they got into my socks and shoes and trousers. I needed to de-seed them all once back at the car. TFTC

Coming down off Black Mountain had to cross a few roads, but got there safely in the end. More worried about the long drying grass (and what might be slithering beneath it) than the cars whizzing by. A little thought was needed at GZ but found it after a few minutes. TNLNSL TFTC

#2003 Green-martian and I eventually found the safest way to get to this great little hide. No way any of these roads need to be crossed to get here. When on foot, I really noticed the grand size of this Interchange. TFBUH TE.

Glenloch interchange caches was my goal today with TheSkype and they all proved a challenge as it's hard to navigate thru the busy roads and tall grass. Headed to this cache from glenloch gorge cache but we just couldn't cross the busy road. So walked along the side of gunghalin drive, back to the safety of the bike path, then finally found cache. Tftc, should have driven to it. Safer.

Tftc. Looked around a bit and had Mrs jaybeem on the other end of the phone reading logs to me. The recurring theme was crawling, so did that and soon had cache in hand.

#1237. 218 days in a row.

I stopped off here on my way in to Civic. I parked off Lady Denman Drive and walked in on the bike path as recommended. The ground was a bit squishy once I was off the bike path, given all the rain, but fortunately it wasn't raining at the time I was searching for the cache. It took me a bit of searching around, given I was doing it by torch light, before I spotted the cache, but then it was a quick sign of the log and I was heading back to the dryness of the car.

Only one muggle was on the bike path at the time I was, while I was on my way back to my car and walking through one of the tunnels. Plenty of cars about, but they wouldn't have cared about the idiot walking around in the rain

Awesome location. TFTC

Decided that a bit of Glenloch interchange caching was required this a.m. Parked in the Black Mountain Reserve carpark off Old Caswell Drive, and strolled down the bike path, then blatantly ignoring the Do not enter sign at the entrance to the old bike path, strolled up to GZ, and cache quickly in hand. There is absolutely no need to cross any busy roads for this one. Engineering aside, there is also a rather sweet hidden dam, with plenty of bird life on and around. This section used to be part of the "Woodland walk" in Black Mountain Nature reserve (it is still signposted at the entrance to the Forest walk/Summit walk), but obviously long gone due to the GDE and interchange construction. TFTC.

Found with injuryman.
My favourite part was when injuryman started crawling to find the cache only to go past it and have a spider land on him.
TFTC.

As Army_Stealth and I started our search, we had an idea or where it might be in regards to the clue. So I crawled towards the spot and started looking. It was at this moment that a spider decided to jump onto the back of my neck. After cussing from the surprise, (and using rocks to my advantage), I was happy to hear Army_Stealth had found it. Thanks for the adventure Tankengine!

Nice spot for engineers! On an Australia Day cache humt. TFTC Tankengine

I had ummed and ahhed about doing this one earlier as I wasn't sure about access and wasn't up for another 400m bush-bash through long grass and blackberries. However, I ended up relatively nearby and decided to go for it. An easy stroll along the bike path and then along the roadside and a very short off road section (although I did manage to pick up an orbweaver along the way). The difference between this 2 and the earlier 2.5!!! Cache was located after a bit of a search and interesting views from here although I didn't like the traffic smell. Thanks Tankengine

#5571 @1935
As I was driving home after orienteering in Chapman, I took the opportunity to stop here, given the recent maintenance. This time I hadn't even got the GPS out, when I spotted a potential hiding place. Nothing there, but then I saw it close by. I hadn't even looked there on my last visit as my GPS had me elsewhere. TFTC.

Container fixed, log replaced, good to go!

The bottom half of the container and the log book are missing, see entry above. (this entry actually made on 25 October )

This entry was edited by Marmaduke Rothschild on Sunday, 25 October 2015 at 05:54:40 UTC.

T4TC

About 18 months ago this was a DNF for me. Came back with the missus to-day. My new GPS put the cache 10 metres away however the missus using my old GPS found it at the co-ordinates. Well actually she found half the container at the GZ. The log and and bottom screw part of the container were missing. The lid however was still securely attached to its spot. TFTC.

My second crack at this one and another DNF. I examined each tree thoroughly and the fence but no bison or scuba

Oh wait there it is. Note to self check where you expect it to be first

After today's orienteering, I went for a wander to find the nearby caches. This was a bit of a challenge to get to by foot. For some reason my caching sense failed me here - the cache was too elusive. I gave up after searching for about 10 minutes.

Have been trying to work out to get in here for a while. Today I had the opportunity to park nearby and walk in along the bike paths safely without cross any roads. Once at GZ I was a bit concerned that the hide would require so extreme manoeuvres but I was stoked as it came into view and I had my hands on it in seconds.
Thanks for finding another great spot for a cache Tankengine.
Cheers
MajuraHathi

Great spot to view many levels of traffic. Not quite a drive by. TFTC Tankengine.

Thanks for the warning about following bike paths and not crossing roads - they were very busy this arvo and with all the bends you could be in danger. Nice hide. Thanks Tankengine - always a delight to find one of yours.

I had been keen to collect this cache as I drive through the Interchange many times every week, and to be honest, it was annoying me knowing it was close, but not found. So after finally collecting a puzzle at the ANU that had been bugging me, geoman very kindly drove around the interchange in a strange way to park at a nearby safe spot.

I was sure we were in the wrong spot, and was trying to convince geoman to try and find a different level, but he went on a frolic of his own, and started looking. As I had unsuitable shoes on, I did my looking from a little distance. I pointed out something to geoman that might bear investigating, and lo - the cache was in hand! I was worried by the previous logs that we would be in for a long search, so it was a relief to lay hands on it so quickly. TNLNSL.

Thanks Tankengine!

What a feat of engineering, took the suggested was , all safe. Lot of cars hooning by. TFTC

Finally found but not where I first looked....

After picking up FFLL2 from a course in the city we decided to pick something close by and clean up an area we have been putting off for awhile although driving past all the time saying "we must get that one" well today was the day to do it at last.
Quick find at GZ and then we wandered back to the car eyeing another one off close by for tomorrow nights attack.

TFTC Tankengine

I'd just about given up on this one when I thought I'd just try a not-uncommon hidey spot. It wasn't there, but it was very close by. Tftc.

Would never have come here if not for the cache! Interesting to watch cars whizz by. TFTC

Great last day of winter for a bit of caching. Made our way from the bike paths to the cache, and started searching. Found it after a while. Nice hide! I like the composition and design of the 3 roads stacked on top of each other. Very interesting place! Thanks Tankengine!

Well, today was the first real day of caching for my holidays and I enjoyed a pleasant ride around the lake. 37 finds and 10 DNFs! This was the thirty-second find of the day. After a previous fail on this one, I got off easy today as the replacement cache was far more obvious then it's forefather. A nice quick find. Log signed and cache replaced. TFTC Tankengine!

After a few false starts found our way to GZ. Used the clues to find and didn't take us too long. Didn't didn't sign log - too wet. TFTC

I was happy this cache was maintained as for the first time I spent there about an hour without success:-(
Today I arrived after the sunset with my bike light in my hands:-)
To make the story short....it took me 40 minutes to find the cache. If this is D2 then I don't want to see D5!!!
Anyway when I opened the container I was surprised there was no empty brand new logbook...
Maybe I found the original cache?

#2267 - 17:15; I had been laid low by the lurgie and spent most of the day in bed, but decided I needed a walk as I was going stir crazy. Picked up a new cache not too far from GZ for this one and figured I was unlikely to get much closer than I was now, so headed over to try my luck. Checked logs on the way over and was optomistic as the cache it seems had gone awol, but had just been replaced. The iPhone had me going in circles, but narrowed things down and soon had the old cache in hand . Previous finders on this log were from October 2013. The way it was attached, it doesn't seem to have been moved? Given my luck in finding these types of hide on sunset, I was pretty pleased with myself! Didn't stick around to try for the new container, one will do. TFTC Tankengine

Finally-we have a smiley! Thanks TE for the maintenance and giving us another go to find the cache.

Arrived at GZ for the third time, after two DNFs, knowing the CO had performed maintenance on this and replaced it in the last 2 days. Should be there somewhere!

So much long grass to look through; we felt happy it was not the middle of summer and there were no slithery things to watch out for (hibernating snakes always makes caching a little more relaxed in autumn/winter).
Now-which tree to choose. It could be in this one or .... this one or even.... A methodical check, branch by branch...slow going, then suddenly from a different angle-there it was.
How hadn't I see that earlier?

Nice to have this one out of the way and a smiley.

Thanks TE,

Domsky

Checked on this today, and it was indeed missing! Have now replaced. Happy hunting!

Armed with a small clue from a previous finder, and being a day of good luck (my birthday) we decided to try this one again.
Darn....still no joy. OK...I think we'll wait and sit this one out until we see another find. I hope this is not a cop-out...but 2 visits to Glenloch Grid is enough for the time being. Hopefully next time we can earn a smiley.

Thanks Tankengine,

Domsky

I'm guessing it's out there....we just didn't spot it today.
Will try again another time.

Thanks for the meander,

Domsky

Geokid and I parked on Lady Denman Dr and found we had to cross a few roads to get here. Not too bad for a Saturday afternoon. Geokid was decidely nervous with all the cars whizzing around, so I called off the search pretty quickly. At least I know where to park now!

After finding the path in spent twenty minutes looking but to no avail. Will try again.

On the way back home, I thought I would have a quick shot at this one. After a bit of searching and walking through spider webs, still no luck. Oh well, better luck next time. I did see the previous finder as I was riding home and was given a hint for GZ. I think there will be better luck then!

I actually found this on 3/9 (just got a bit behind with logging things, trying to catch up now
... Boy this one took some finding!
I found my way in (probably from the same wrong direction a few others have) and found a spot to park my bike out of sight from the road while I looked ... I did quite a bit of looking too - I looked here and there and everywhere ... well - in a heck of a lot of places - all along the fence, in trees, under overhangs, around the scattered piles of rocks ... Was almost ready to give up when I decided, in desperation, to look in a few of the bigger grass clumps ... about the second one I shone my torch at (yes - I was hunting in the dark - which kind of makes things harder - lol) I noticed something glinting in the torchlight just nearby ... Yes - there it was, the sneaky sod! Definitely not the easiest cache to find in the dark! LOL
TFTC - was very satisfying to finally find the pesky thing ... and an interesting place to have a poke around in ... in fact I even ducked back in there on my way past a week or 3 later - on the off chance that I might find my work name tag lying around near where I parked my bike (because I think it went missing somewhere on my travels that other afternoon) ... didn't find the name tag, but did get a quick daylight peek at the area

Found at last!

Took real brain power and logs from long ago we knew it was ground level but initially had trouble finding it. Perseverance paid off and we had it in hand TFTC tank engine

Brilliant forget everything you think you know about TE hides then start looking. Plenty of hints in the old logs tftc