Royal Hotel Orange, New South Wales, Australia
By JABs (Adopted by emant) on 23-May-09. Waypoint GC1RDY7

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Logs

05-Dec-19
I am regretfully archiving this cache since there's been no response from nor action by the cache owner within the time frame requested in the last reviewer note.

tiddalik
Community Volunteer Reviewer
 
10-Oct-19
Checked on this cache today and it is still in place and ready to find.
 
19-Sep-19
Sorry geocache community about this cache needing repair. life as gotten in the way of my geocaching.

I am in the process of trying to pass this cache on to another geocacher so we can keep this great cache.
 
24-Aug-19
Today saw us heading off for a long ago planned tripped, out past Dubbo and then West. A good number of counties, a few virtuals, lots of oldies, some good DT and others of special interested targeted along the way.

With GreyHams picked up we were on our way, Bogan Shire our furtherest destination... Maybe! We drove past many along the way but managed the caches we wanted with a couple of DNF thrown in.

A beautiful sunny day and a pleasant drive through the countryside. Stopped a few times with the locals all friendly and nice interesting characters. Thanks for the cache.

This has been on the list for some time so was keen to attempt this one. I had a good hunch about the best way to get to this cache and it was a concern to see that it had been disabled before we could attempt it. A few messages sent off to the CO and a previous finder and my hunch was confirmed, with a little more specific information once we had found GZ we were able to replace this cache and CO contacted since. This is a great cache, well placed and a lot of fun to complete, a favourite from me easily.
 
24-Aug-19
This weekend has been planned for some time...postponed once but not again. That trip is Canberra to Bogan shire and back again... hoovering up as many counties as possible.

So Aquilus1 and I set off a little late, due to other familial duties, but we made good time stopping many times to make sure we have all counties and interesting oldies/DT.

Sorry for the generic logs.... we have a lot to log!

Replaced this one with Aquilus1
 
21-Jul-19
I would like to add my voice to griz's plea. This cache is always likely to get more DNFs than finds. I will be happy to replace the cache within three weeks. Please do not archive this, it is too good to lose for some DNFs.
 
20-Jul-19
The cache appears to be in need of owner intervention. I'm temporarily disabling it, to give the owner an opportunity to check on the cache, and take whatever action is necessary. Please respond to this situation in a timely manner (i.e., within 28 days) to prevent the cache from being archived for non-responsiveness.

If you require more time please be sure to **post a note** (not an email) explaining the situation and how much more time you require. For ongoing issues please ensure you visit the listing and post a new note every 28 days to keep everyone up to date, if you do not then you cache may be archived without further note from a reviewer. Caches archived due to lack of maintenance are no longer unarchived and you will need to submit a replacement as a new cache.


{#ea0ced2566c7261f633ae2a517ee14d1}
 
20-Jul-19
This has always been a challenging cache, with more than meets the eye.
A few, or even a lot, of DNF were always to be expected.

It would be a shame to archive this cache unless it were CONFIRMED that it was missing.
I’m no longer in the Orange area to check it out, but it would be great if a previous finder, or even the CO (missing in action?) would be able to confirm (or replace if needed).

I implore the reviewer to give this cache some extra lee-way. It is a keeper!!
 
18-Jul-19
Same as the others. Also no update from CO.
 
18-Jul-19
This geocacher reported that this geocache should be archived. A community volunteer reviewer has been notified.
 
25-May-19
Please check on this cache. It hasn't been found for more than a year & there's a string of DNF's
 
08-Mar-19
Out ‘n about with m4yb getting a few caches.
On my adventure returning to the Midwest district after a 50 year absence.
As she said we did ponder all sorts of options and then went for an interesting, if not slightly scary walk to close to GZ, found items listed in hint but no joy with the chain or a cache. Sadly a DNF but we hope to turn it yellow before we leave town.
 
08-Mar-19
So here we are in Orange for megawat60's 50th school reunion. We so wanted to find this cache! So after much reading and discussions, we set off. Pretty sure we had the right GZ.... say no more, but it fitted the hint. However, zilch despite a lot of looking. So, sadly a DNF but maybe the CO will be at megawat60's event on Sunday! Hopeful to make this one a smiley!
 
09-Nov-18
Three of us looked for ages, couldn't find anything that matched the hint.
 
16-Sep-18
Went in today as this cache has been on our to do list for a very long time. Unfortunately we were disappointed not to be able to find the cache. Looking in the exact location it appears to MIA. Contacted CO, without any reply!
 
23-Jun-18
Found with drobbonz on 1/2/2017
 
It's taken me years of passing this cache before I could finally try for it. I want going to do this one alone!!! BUT despite we shoes from cruising the road the right, or left, way and spending some time at a muggle-free GZ, we didn't find what we came here for. Definitely no hint item in sight anywhere. Went for a wander to the taxi track even. And into The Royal Hotel. Ew spiders!

So a frown face for me today. I wonder how many more years before I get to try this one again?
 
09-Apr-18
We were on a geocaching holiday in Orange. We have our bikes ready for a couple of cycling loops to do in the next two days. After dinner tonight we walked around town and found one cache. We had a quick look at the Royal Hotel and despite reading all the logs etc., we had no idea. Back in the motel, we re-read all the cache info, attributes, logs. As that song from the Sound of Music goes "you start at the very beginning, a very good place to start." Dan then suggested an idea, Sue concurred. Dan said "can I go out now?" Sue stayed at the motel. Dan went out exploring and found that his suggestion looked promising. He persevered and persevered and ended up finding the cache peeking out from its hidey hole. GR8. A lot of fun. TFTC
 
27-Jan-18
Scaffolding and muggles make this too hard today.
 
27-Jan-18
Tftc - managed to get this on the way to swimming. Son forgot the pen
 
25-Dec-17
We thought we'd grant ourselves a Christmas treat and finally go for this one. In the end it was a fairly straightforward find.

It being very early on Christmas Day, all was quiet, with the muggles still at home opening their presents Smile.

Brilliant, a favourite from me. Thanks JABs and emant.
 
25-Dec-17
This was a fun Christmas Day activity with Mr MR. I don't think I'd want to attempt it at other times. Thanks emant.
 
17-Nov-17
This wasn't a good start to our Orange geocaching experience, we must be missing something. Perhaps we'll gat another go this weekend, if not we'd just have to come back Wink
 
17-Nov-17
Going in the too hard basket. I thought I found all the clues except the chain. But maybe I didn't? Smile Sneaky cache this one.
 
06-Jul-17
Know where i have to go but not so sure i want to, ill be back when i have better implements
 
05-Jul-17
I don't have enough time to search for this as it's a quick visit, but I did try. Maybe next time I'm in town.
 
12-Jun-17
Didn't have much time, couldn't find it. Perhaps next time!
 
30-Apr-17
We are Grey nomads traveling back to Tasmania, We hadn’t stayed at Orange before this trip so as we do as soon as we arrived at our accommodation we looked for nearby caches and there was one very close, so off we went, this wasn’t to be as easy as that day 1: walked North so we could approach from the right direction keeping left all the way, gps showed us we were close but then there was the mention of the taxi rank so over we go the structure nearby seemed the obvious place but no angle iron that we could see, there is always at least 1 taxi so no go. Day 2: covered much the same tracks but expanded out a little, we were talking of doing a DNF but it kept getting to us (I hate it when people say easy find ) sooo we sat down and read and re-read the page and out of the blue the light come on, we did this one under the cover of darkness and bingo there’s the little blighter. Just wait til we get back to Tassie Jab’s were’ looking for you this cache near sent us balmy. Thanks for setting it up Jab’s and thanks to emant for maintaining it. A favourite from us
 
09-Mar-17
Like most , Took us a while to work it out - Then quite obvious!
What a CRACKER - The way caches should be!
Thanks Very much - The M SITE
 
03-Jan-17
Back in Orange again after 15 months and this one is one we looked and looked for last year with no luck. This year, over some drinks we poured over the logs and the description again and then a light went off. Our local cacher had been searching off and on for this one since our last visit. Today all the clues aligned and off we went. It was just as we had imagined. TFTC.
 
03-Jan-17
So excited!! After many visits to the area and many nights reading the logs....I finally found it today. I found it with geofriends from Oregon!
Tftc excellent!
 
03-Jan-17
We were here 15 months ago and tried and tried searching for this one then. Drobbonz lives locally and has made many attempts over the past year. We are back in town from Portland Oregon (home of the original stash) and I started reviewing the cache pages and the logs about a month ago. We had many conversations about this one and then bingo.... it all came together. We headed out this morning ... drobbonz and kiwisteve2 and Charlie the geopup with a theory. Yup! Finally. Well done. Gets a fav.
 
28-Sep-16
After 30minutes of being stared at by muggles, we finally found what we think we were looking for. All of the clues alligned, but it wasnt to be seen.
 
10-Sep-16
Couldn't identify where the taxi rank was. Decided the drizzle and busy intersection was far too unpleasant and open an area to search for long.
 
16-Apr-16
Orange trip April 2016. A long day caching in the area leading towards Orange via Cudal and Wellington. Now I am In Orange there were a collection of suburban caches and park caches. to be done. This cache is one reason I came to Orange this weekend. If I had read all the instructions at first I would have saved a longer than required hike. All in all a very surreal experience.

Thanks.

21368.50 TNLN
Visited: World Traveling Gold GC A#6 & Rangefinder A#67

[Teal][font=Comic Sans MS]Albida[font=Verdana][/Teal]
 
23-Mar-16
Tftc nice place
 
26-Feb-16
This cache had grabbed our interest so there was no chance we were driving through Orange without having a look for it. Read the description again to make sure we got it right and set off from the south. With the instructions lining up we continued on to the Royal. At least it wasn't busy so we had no problems getting to GZ and grabbing the cache. Awesome cache, loved everything about it. TFTC emant, fav from us.
 
02-Jan-16
Oh my! Best cache ever!! Visiting Orange for 2 days, scrounged around the GZ last night for about half an hour and were convinced we had found a pair of something that must mean we were close... But no luck... Got put off by taxi drivers watching. Slept on it overnight and returned to GZ this morning, widening the search. There was a clue here that eventually pointed us in the right direction though. Gave up and went hunting for an easier cache. I was convinced we weren't paying enough attention to ALL the clues in the description (attributes ended up being the convincing factor indicating that we had it right). Fortunately our alternative cache led us in just the right direction to start over!! Suddenly it all made sense, and we knew we were on the right trail now, but too much muggle traffic. Also a bit anxious about what the next steps would bring! Came back after lunch and a lovely gallery visit (what a great town Orange is!) and this time we took the plunge... Pulse was racing, and we chose a path that looked easier... But as indicated in other descriptions, you need to follow directions EXACTLY and it will be right there in front of you! Chain is missing but still clear where to look , and we've left it slightly visible for the next lucky cacher!! May have scared away some other cachers as we retreated.... I wonder where they went!! They might still be running! Now time to enjoy the local chocolate specialties as a reward Smile. Thanks again JABs and emant, best day in Orange! Smile.
 
29-Oct-15
Sorry. Trackable wasn't dropped in this cache. Obviously. Hit the wrong button when sending the log. When I get home and can use the computer I will log on and fix it up.
 
28-Oct-15
Spent a little while looking for this one. Was coming to the conclusion that there wasn't much hope for me to find this one without a second set of eyes. Was only that I had a second look through the page that I found the clues that I needed. The last thing to do was wait for the niggles to disappear for a while so I could grab the cache. Wrote initials in log. Thanks for the hide. Got the thoughts flowing for cache ideas for home. This one as the first one for the capstone trip. Now to sit an exam in the morning then off again to fine another cache or few. Happy caching.

Ps passing through a TB on my travels. Thank you.
 
05-Aug-15
Looked for a long time but not luck
 
02-Aug-15
What a wonderful experience - unique. I would love to tell the whole story but I am not going to give away the secret to finding the cache. It all clicked together for us when we looked carefully at all the information given. If you can read you can find this. Emant - I am SO glad you kept this one going - it is most worthwhile.
 
02-Aug-15
This cache gives you quite a sense of accomplishment as first you have to think and then you have to find it. It was a thoroughly enjoyable experience and a D5 is one of the thrills of our caching journey. I can just imagine JABS with a big happy grin as he hid it! Many thanks Emant for maintaining this excellent cache.
 
18-Jul-15
Three of us spent considerable time here this afternoon to no avail. Unfortunately we are not from around here & don't know anyone to gain a clue.Obviously a great cache. Thanks emant.

This entry was edited by TheGGGs on Saturday, 18 July 2015 at 09:18:44 UTC.
 
08-May-15
What a great idea for a cache. I enjoy it one of the best I have done. TFTC.
 
25-Apr-15
It will not beat me.
 
12-Feb-15
Checked on cache and log and all is good.
 
03-Dec-14
well what a cache this had me going in squares until i got a huge help from chuze with out that help i would never have located the gz again chuze thank you
 
16-Oct-14
Haven't heard back from 'owner' of this cache as to m.i.a so im logging it as found. Easily the best cache in town and I think I recruited 6 or 7 new geocachers to the cause. Its there where all the clues point. Finally caught on while standing opposite the parkview reading a sign about the history of the park. Great cache. Gets a fav.
 
26-Sep-14
Went over GZ for a second time as I didn't want this one to beat me. I'm pretty sure the cache is no longer there. Emant is checking and will let me know.
 
23-Sep-14
We think it might be M.I.A. Will check on it next week.
 
21-Sep-14
Found gz. Found angle iron. No chain at site? I noted in prev logs that the chain was broken so not sure if cache is still there given its challenges?
 
09-Sep-14
Next time I visit Orange I will be better prepared for this one. The street is significantly longer than when I last walked it more than fifty years ago
 
03-Aug-14
Satisfying find. U need to read all the logs and details before setting out to find gz.Parked at given set co ordinates, kept left and found the royal hotel, few more steps and found the angle iron. Glad I read the attributes and details and did as suggested. Tftc
 
02-Aug-14
I have read the details, attributes and everything provided on the cache page so many times and never understood half of them. So had a discussion about them with joshwa27 and they all clicked ! We knew where to go then.
Parked at WP1 but on the street and started there. We stayed on the left and eventually found the royal hotel, angle iron and the chain, tftc, SL.
Gotta give this a fav point ! Thanks for the adventure Smile

This entry was edited by Chuze on Sunday, 03 August 2014 at 09:34:52 UTC.
 
18-Jul-14
Looked for a while while parents were talking at the Cannobolas Hotel.
No luck today
 
02-Apr-14
Back hère again to try to solve this tricky puzzle, but to no avail. We walked up and down the street and round and round in circles, getting many puzzled looks from passers by. Just have to do more homework, I guess.
 
17-Mar-14
Not sure if I am aloud to log this one? so posted as a note only. But as I was in town decided to take the family on a tour while in town. Started at paid parking and then head over to this one- still no sign telling us not to go there. Our first choice was a little blocked up and we would of gotten wet, so a quick change of route soon had us on the right track.
Keeping left as we headed across town, my oldest two princess Essica and smelly belly 8 were more scarde then the youngest Dr James. This place still had that odd feeling about it knowing were we were and were we were going.
Finally arrived at GZ and within seconds Code1 had the cache in his hot hands. Noting that the Log only had a limited amount of room left I noted in the Log book only JABs, so as not to take up to much room.
Great to see this one has stood the test of time even after all rain that has fallen out here.
Thanks for keeping this one alive emant.
JABs.
 
04-Feb-14
I wasn't a boy scout but I reckon that I was close to being on the money, but the cache just couldn't be found. I don't fee that bad when IF couldn't find it! TFTC but it's too tricky for me.....
 
04-Feb-14
Had a bit of a look for this one, too cold & too many muggles about in the evening!
 
23-Jan-14
DNF. Got muggled. Guy asked us if we'd lost something. We left!
 
01-Jan-14
searched high and low reread details still no joy for me
 
01-Jan-14
Searched high n low, read and reread info still no luck

This entry was edited by aussie_rover89 on Wednesday, 01 January 2014 at 10:32:52 UTC.
 
27-Dec-13
Finally! !!. Needed to remember my days in scouts to find the beginning. Found with geosamurai111, juniornsiyeti and teamwilcox. Forgot the pen to sign the cache but have photo proof. Thtc
 
30-Oct-13
Again I spent a few minutes pondering the whereabouts of this annoying little cache Razz
Where can you buy some common sense in Orange ?
I'm obviously lacking some Razz
Nowhere near as much as the drivers and pedestrians though [:o]
So I might have to find a common sense shop in another towne Wink

More thinking required !!
 
19-Oct-13
Awesomeo cool cache Smile my husbans first find!
 
19-Oct-13
This was an awesome cache with fellow cacher DeltaEchoLove.....and geoteens ...

This entry was edited by kazskrew on Saturday, 19 October 2013 at 07:57:38 UTC.
 
27-Sep-13
What a fun cache to find. If you can't find it, don't get down about it .... Oh hang on. Thanks for the adventure. It brought back the days of my youth spent in Orange.
 
08-Sep-13
Hmm, I wandered up and down and read the description over and over, but there was no taxi rank signs and no angle iron anywhere to be seen.
 
03-Sep-13
Dead easy when you read and absorb the complete description page down to the finest details. TFTC and thanks heaps for the little adventure! Comon sense definitely required... Don't attempt this cache without it!
 
02-Sep-13
Stood on the corner, pondered... Walked up and down both sides of the road... Pondered more. Jumped on the car to leave and inspiration struck! I know now where to look, but just need the opportunity to go give it a try!! Razz
 
13-Jul-13
At last, 3 years 5 visits and around 8 hours of looking, finally worked it out. It still took 2 visits even after Code1 and Ms Smelly Boot told me everything I needed was on the cach page. Big Grin

I went there with Big Rocket after I finally worked out where I had been going wrong with this one, or after all this time that is what I hoped [?]

All I can say for anyone else that is having the same problem finding it, it is there just sit there and think about what the cache page says about the cache. Best of luck to those that follow. Wink
 
13-Jul-13
Wow what an awesome cach. Only found it thanks to jrhv other wise I would never have had a chance. Smile thanks a lot
 
09-Jun-13
Well we searched and searched and searched and pondered and paced and scratched heads and still didn't find the cache!
We even started to leave town, had a flash of inspiration, came back, and still didn't find it!
We will be back!
 
09-Jun-13
Love it love it love it. Of course I haven't found it so I expect that once we do I might like it even more. One gets so tired of simple drive-by caches so it was lovely to have something to really challenge us this afternoon. Wandered in and out of GZ area trying to get a lock. Paced things out, pondered the listing, pondered the cache page. Re-pondered the location and discounted several possible locations. In the end came up with a few possibles but none that should be attempted at lunchtime Sunday on a long-weekend with traffic and muggles everywhere.

I've never been to Orange before but now I want to come back... but I am considering turning up at midnight on Tuesday or 6am Sunday morning....
 
22-Apr-13
On a day trip from Cowra where we are house sitting. We spent a good hour and a half here (including the time in the nearby pub having lunch, staring silently towards GZ with blank looks on our faces). Thanks for the challenge but we are stumped.

PS - I had a light globe moment overnight. We will be back (not sure when) ! And we will be fully prepared for success !

This entry was edited by RiverRuners on Monday, 22 April 2013 at 22:43:36 UTC.
 
18-Apr-13
On the way back from Dubbo Zoo we had a quick stop off at Orange. While the wife had a look in the shops I thought I'd try this one. Well time was not on my side so had to give up after scratching around, most of which was scratching my head to work it out.
I'll be back in Orange one day and try again then.
 
11-Apr-13
Success!

After two thorough daylight searches around the Royal failed to turn up our quarry (but earned us plenty of puzzled looks from muggles as we did things like scrutinize the angle irons securing air conditioners to walls) Team K.S.L.'s leader phoned a friend.

Taking the advice to review the cache page again to heart a new beginning was in order. Eureka moments struck as we considered the attributes and description. Our idea proved correct and the route we went down led us to the delightful little cache, no problem.

Nice little adventure, very memorable. Thanks must also be given to the shopping trolley that aided us after we decided to continue walking onwards instead of heading back the way we came after we found the cache.

This entry was edited by Doctor_Cthulwho on Thursday, 11 April 2013 at 16:08:39 UTC.

This entry was edited by Doctor_Cthulwho on Thursday, 11 April 2013 at 16:10:21 UTC.
 
31-Mar-13
Gotcha !!! Thanks for bringing me here especially as I was able to fill in a D/T square I needed. TFTC

This entry was edited by Temingi on Monday, 01 April 2013 at 21:00:31 UTC.
 
28-Mar-13
Spent another 1.5 hours looking for this one got home at 4am this morning
 
27-Mar-13
Not found yet come back later when its not so busy if im late to work u know why
 
20-Jan-13
Too many muggles around to make a thorough search.
 
19-Jan-13
After a bit of working out I had to put Millie my geokid back in the car to make the fine it pays to have a man around to work this one out
 
06-Jan-13
Celebrating the find with a glass of Orange's finest. Needed a hint with this one and Toadmiester7 pointed me to the cache page which had all the information required. Geohubby was keen once we'd figured out the puzzle and off we went and soon the find had been made. Thanks for a very memorable experience! Definitely worthy of a favorite point.
 
07-Dec-12
Fourth time visit and finally I can log a smilie. I had a hint from the cache owner about reading the cache page, and yes it all fell into place.Truly all that is required is to read all the info on the cache page. I finally followed the instructions, and found the cache as described. Thanks emant, this is a great cache. Definitely a favourite. TFTC big time.
 
26-Aug-12
This one defeated me... I spent a generous 20minutes at gz but unfortunately I was unable to locate the hide... Will have to try again..
 
21-Aug-12
Ok so no luck today however after read other logs it's obvious more reading required for this one... Can't wait to come back and try again...
 
22-Apr-12
Pretty confident worked out the location where this is meant to be - just not convinced it's there anymore?
 
21-Apr-12
Was hoping this was going to be our 300th cache. But no luck yet again. With any luck we'll have an epiphany before our next visit to Orange.
 
21-Apr-12
Hoping to have found this one. But still no luck. Have to try again another day.
 
10-Apr-12
Muggles CCTVs and cops all looking at these suspect people poking, prodding and pulling at things that arent there. Had a quick look but lunch time's not the time for this one. Hopefully we can look for this one on the way home to Adelaide.
 
20-Feb-12
Ok. Unfortunately have to concede defeat on this one today. We had 3 visits to try this today and have come away none the wiser. Muggles and street cameras made us a bit nervous but we still had a pretty good look. Couldn't find taxi rank #1 and couldn't identify the 2 pieces of angle iron mentioned. Now don't know if we are over thinking and over analyzing the description. Also trying to work out if this is more a puzzle cache than a traditional. Guess all will be revealed when we do eventually find this. Better luck on our next visit to Orange when we come to see BrightEyes! at the Uni. In the meantime the nightmares will keeps awake lol tftc when we get it

This entry was edited by Bessie's-Mob on Sunday, 26 February 2012 at 10:00:17 UTC.
 
01-Feb-12
Second time to Orange and my second DNF at this one. URGGHH. I'm sure this one will be worth the effort, when I discover it. Until Next time.....
 
29-Dec-11
Wasn't going to miss having a go at this on a visit to Orange! Now time for a full log. This one had me intrigued. We hadn't been to Orange for two years so I made sure we had a chance to look for this one. I thought I knew Orange pretty well but there's always somewhere new.
By following the instructions we had no problem at all. Recent heavy rains had made some areas wet but not impassable. The tiny cache was easily found in the end and duly signed. Definitely a favourite from us.
Thanks!

This entry was edited by Yurt on Wednesday, 11 January 2012 at 00:23:57 UTC.
 
27-Dec-11
Looked but wineries called
 
05-Nov-11
Arrgg...keep left angel iron? I cant find Taxi Rank #1. My head hurts. You are responsible for our insanity!!!!
 
03-Nov-11
Our 5581st overall find.

Oh how it pays to read the description... I eventually got there after the phone a friend option. The advice I got was "read the description" Once near the GZ I wandered a bit far up Summer St and had to head back down to the Royal to make the find.

Thanks emant for the cache.
 
30-Oct-11
FINALLY!
Geo-Dad got it, many hours of thinking involved to piece it together, even after a hint we were still stumped.
But Geo-Dad had a brainwave and BINGO .
Its taken us 6 months to solve this cache and Geo-Dad will go to bed happy tonight.
5 Stars for this one and a a favorite. TFTC it was brilliant.
 
22-Oct-11
Again a no find for me I know it is there somewhere. A bit late getting the log done due to technical issues.
 
16-Oct-11
I'm back in Orange and my 2nd or 3rd attempt but this time I was arm with another hint which I was confident , so parked at the CP and off I went an early start for a Sunday thankfully no recent rain, but eventually arrived at the "Royal Hotel" and had a look around hmm scratched my head then found another path going up Summer St. so walked up there for about 50m and decided nope still not right then back to the "Royal" and then did some more searching nothing.
Ok I resorted to another phone-a-friend hint and just then I spied the little bugger tucked away in the corner. phew glad to get that one I must say, replaced so next finder might have more of a chance but all good
thanks JABS x2